The last panel made me a bit more sympathetic to Nose. I mean, imagine being forced to try to spin straw into gold, especially when you’re not in peak physical condition. And they better not hurt Emma in any way…
Who the hell calls their kid “Rumpelstiltskin”, though…
*sigh* Nobody. As Meg and Isa explained, it’s who you identify with in a story
that makes you a namesake, not your actual name. Being named the same
as a character makes it more likely IMO, but it isn’t mandatory.
Earlier Nose said he wasn’t a namesake though. I suspect he was one of the test subjects before they made Emma a Skeleton Key.
It was also explained previously in the comic that ONE gave Nose the name of Rumpelstiltskin so that he could control him. Whenever One says Rumpelstiltskin, it seems to hurt Nose in some way.
It was also confirmed that Nose was like an earlier version of the Skeleton Key. His powers aren’t as great as Emma’s though.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t Namesakes the main characters in their stories? Rumpelstiltskin wasn’t the main character, so it is possible for him to not be a Namesake and still belong to a story.
Nose may not be a namesake, but if One gave him the name Rumpelstiltskin (and presumably all the power it entails), then the straw to gold test would actually be a very good way to determine the extent of that particular Name’s power. In the story, at least the version I remember, the farmer’s daughter never did any of the spinning, all she did was blubber about how she’d be killed in the morning and then Rumpel came to her rescue and did the spinning for her.
I would also say the Rumpel was indeed the main character, he’s the only one who has a name in that story, his name IS the story, and the entire plot, after the farmer’s heartless boast, depends on him. He might be a “bad guy” in the story, but that doesn’t mean he can’still be who the story is about.
My take, anyway.
True, and I’ve always doubted the veracity of the daughter’s story. ;p I suppose history is written by the victors.
Namesakes are not by default the main characters. And not all fairy tale characters are namesakes. Sometimes, it’s just that the story takes place on the same world as a namesake story so they cross paths with a namesake. Others are 100% invention.
That makes more sense! Thanks!
? I’m pretty sure it’s the name?
someone, possibly you, made a comment similar to this within the last few pages.
I got the impression that this clarification was made in another thread on a different page, is this correct? Do you recall approximately where/when in the story that took place so we can read it to? I think it is safe to assume that many of us have not read (or can’t remember) the comments on every single page, particularly if we came to the comic later and had to read through the archive to catch up.
I am pretty sure this topic has not been discussed specifically in the comic so far? And if I’m incorrect on that point, feel free to let me know. It doesn’t take much prompting for me to lose the majority of my weekend to scouring the archives.
Regardless, I don’t think the presence of one answer ever invalidates the conversation that results when that answer is questioned.
that’s a really awesome comic you linked to-
i loved it!
I assumed he was the princess in the story who Rumpelstiltskin taught. does she have a name? IDEK.
I do not like the idea of re-sealing Emma’s abilities. No, no, no. What is your plan, Nose? *narrows eyes*
“Evaluate your power level…?”
IT’S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!! (sorry couldn’t help it.)
It’s OK, I knew it was coming
She’s a namesake of the 777th degree…:p
God damn it Nose, I don’t want to feel sorry for you. I’m gonna angrily wish you escaped with Alice as kids and didn’t grow up to be terrible.
Very intrigued to see these tests. Two technical things: Panel five “What kind of tests they’re going to do ONE me?” which could just be clever wordplay… And panel two: “They put me in charge in making sure…” In charge OF making sure would flow better. Just little notes. Keep up the awesome work, ladies!
Oops! Sorry about that. This was a last-minute lettering job when I got to Isa’s tonight. Note, don’t letter while listening to “Cabin Pressure.” You’ll laugh too hard.
Also, don’t listen to that when you have a case of insomnia, and a nine year old peacefully sleeping–they won’t like you very much after you wake them up at waytooearly o’clock.
Oh yes! Whereas “Welcome to Night Vale” is perfect if you have insomnia. Not good for when you’re on long road trips and need to stay awake.
On the other hand, Listening to Benedict Cumberbatch reading a “Sherlock Holmes” collection, it’s great for relaxing. Or his reading of “Casanova” while enjoying a glass of wine.
Okay, I know I probably not supposed to, but when i saw the last panel, I laughed.
A spinning wheel, hmm? No wonder he was renamed “Rumplestiltskin.”
Pretty sure this is a test AFTER he was given the name ‘Rumplestiltskin’ and they’re testing his goldspinning ability.
(For purely scientific reasons of course. Nothing to do with the costs of an evil organization, I’m sure.)
Oh, good point. Always nice to have a source of income!
Aww, now I feel a bit bad for Nose.
Gaah spinning wheels always bring woes! Except in Weaver’s Peak
To safely create real gold in consequential amounts would require a degree of energy control that is nothing short of godlike. To put that in perspective, consider this: the particle accelerator in Geneva can create approximately 20,000,000 atoms of gold per day. Sounds like a lot? If the accelerator were used for nothing else every day, and somehow maintained in perfect working order forever, it would take 50 million years to make one ounce of gold. The energies involved in creating gold and heavier elements in nature go far beyond the average supernova; it takes a HYPERnova caused by the collision of neutron stars. This is why gold is so rare! There are solar systems that have virtually none. To create just an ounce instantly would require the combined energy that the accelerator would spread out safely over millions of years to be used all at once. That kind of fusion reaction could literally crack the earth in two, and just for an ounce! So to have that kind of control over energy so that it would not destroy anything would make Nose a god. And since One controls him, what would that make One?
That’s why it’s called magic. Obviously, he is NOT operating with such amount of energy. He is using “physical” law which allows to create gold more effectively. For comparison, remember that coughting up pages of paper Emma did, while not so economically usefull, would require similar amounts of energy to APPEAR, because as far as classical physic go, they appeared out of nothing. Certainly more impressive that creating gold from straw, where you can get the energy needed from straw (although, I’m not sure if king would accept that he get ounce of gold from ounce of straw, I think volume equivalence was requested).
And I’m not even starting on opening wormholes to different worlds. There are physical theories which includes other worlds, but there are none allowing to travel between them. Creating the wormhole itself is on edge of our understanding of physics (I mean THEORY of it), and doing it inside gravitation of Earth without affecting its orbit might also be problematic …
I am not disputing the prominence of magic in the story, or else there would be no point in me reading the story. I am only saying that being able to control energies that, when left to their natural course could destroy planets, is nothing short of godlike, however it is used, and being able to control the controller makes One terrifying.
I love this entire conversation.
Though I will throw out that the papers Emma coughed up were established as non-physical, or perhaps more accurately non-”real” existences. Someone pointed out in-story that they would quickly fade and that the ones around town were probably already gone.
I’d contest the [Nose is godlike] and [One, able to control the controller, is terrifying] as a bit of hyperbole. Remember that Nose isn’t capable of manipulating energies freely, as we know up to this point, but rather seems to have fairly fixed abilities. Like a user on a computer being granted certain, but not all, administrative permissions perhaps? (To use a simple metaphor.)
I would agree that they are still crazy powerful and that One being able to do all these crazy things still makes him terrifying, but not precisely in the manner you put it.
Nose seems to have a highly specialized will, in such a way that One has crafted. One does not want mindless automatons, nor individuals broken by fear. Controling them in that way would be less risky, but not nearly as useful. It’s a bit like having a dog on a very long retractable leash, it gives them more options, but requires more skill on One’s part to maintain control. It has paid off so far, but he may well be underestimating the power of love. That may well set Nose free, or at least free enough to free Emma. Still, if Nose could transcend his restrictions, there is nothing he could not do; E=MC2 after all. My ultimate point is that Einstein’s equation means that true Alchemy is an infinitely more awe inspiring concept then even our most superstitious ancestors could have imagined. Nose is effectively a human cold fusion reactor.
I’m sorry but I must disagree again. Sir Isaac Newton, one of the most influential scientists of all time, spent at least as much time with alchemy as with science. He did not have the exact numbers, but in Opticks, Query 30, he asked: “Are not gross bodies and light convertible into one another, and may not
bodies receive much of their activity from the particles of light which
enter into their composition?”
IMHO, he DID assumed that matter can be turned in energy and vice versa, and his interrest in alchemy (despite having much more success in science) might easily be powered by roughly correct understanding of how awesome it would be.
Sir Isaac had only a chemical understanding of material conversion to energy because he still adhered to the Aristotelian assumption that atoms are by definition unbreakable, (we really should call them something else nowadays), but we now know that Alchemy can only be achieved by breaking “atoms” and recombining the bits into new atoms. My point was that doing so in consequential amounts in a short period of time without blowing up the world or allowing the converted material to dissipate to the winds by definition would be more then superhuman. Nose is safely shunting that excess energy somewhere, maybe via wormhole into an empty dimension. That is still a mind boggling degree of control; it would be like telekineticly reaching out to a solar flare and sculpting it into a curlycue.
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Oh yeah, continuing advancements in science raise all sorts of eyebrows for the beliefs of the past; and that whether the beliefs were based on superstition or simply the limited knowledge of the time. Historic beliefs in the source of lightning bolts; the origin to our current knowledge of the fundamental elements that make up our world, once defined by alchemist as being only 4 and influencing our behaviors and being partial sources for the personality; and even Darwin’s theories of evolution were rooted in his limited understanding of the build blocks of life, namely cells. Really, that is a fascinating one. At the time cells were thought to be little more than microscopic bundles of goo, rather than the highly complex chemical machines we now know them to be, and Darwin’s statements to how his theory of evolution would break down at the end of one of his books sheds light on what he would currently think of his own theory. Scientific studies are constantly discovering new tidbits of how the world works that force old theories to be reexamined and either changed or completely thrown out the window so that new theories may be formed in their place.
There is enough of the old pagan in me to not rule out some aspect of what they would call magic. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, so perhaps any sufficiently practical magic is indistinguishable from science, at least in the archaeological record. We don’t KNOW for sure how Stone Henge was built. Probably just engineering way ahead of its time, or was it something else, something stranger that could do the same job? Newton was far more open minded that way then his successors, and he was a better man for it.
I’m not sure I follow?
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” refers to something that functions for one reason, namely the physical nature of the universe, being so complexly constructed that those unfamiliar with the theories of it’s construction and/or function mistake them for functioning due to other reasons.
“[A]ny sufficiently practical magic is indistinguishable from science” is a bit of a strange statement because this “practical magic”, assuming its existence in the real world, would be a normal phenomenon that has simply been named as such. i.e. it technically is “science” according to the purposes of the statement.
Though, we could get into the whole issue of “what exactly is SCIENCE” and “what would we call MAGIC if it existed” and “if this magic existed, would it still be MAGIC or simply a newly discovered SCIENCE?”
Then we could even get into the issues of “are miracles and the intervention of God natural or supernatural phenomenon based on his nature as creator and upholder of existence as we know it.”
And so down the rabbit hole we go!
Yeeey! Let’s get curiouser!!
SCIENCE is method how we analyze something and organize knowledge about it. Testable predictions, reproducibility and stuff like that. You can apply science on magic without problems … and in fact, the test on current page IS applying science on magic.
Real question is what is MAGIC. Do we label stuff we were not yet able to successfully analyze scientifically magic? Do we label MAGIC the belief surrounding it? Or do we make a scientific definition of magic, making possible to create something which is BOTH technology and magic? Or do we label MAGIC only stuff which is NOT based on any physical law? But wait: stuff not based on physical laws are not magic. Those are miracles.
… by the way, applying science on magic is usually very dangerous. Traditional magic is limited by, well, tradition. Scientified magic is limited only by imagination of the scientist. Imagination of someone who was able to go through theory of relativity and quantum physics. That’s hardly any limitation.
I was rather annoyed at myself for using the word “science” as I had previously, and my dissection of the quote was so roundabout. This little quote is so troublesome because, while the intended meaning can be fairly easily inferred, the literal meaning is so broad and open without any singular definition for the word “magic”. One person may drive the quote in one direction while someone else will drive it in another. Placing the quote in the context of the real world vs. a fictional world of fantasy also changes it’s implications depending on the rules of the world to which it is applied.
I assume you include Homer in “people” (The greek poet, not Simpson). According to all informations about gods we have, “godlike” is not really exact rating of power, with many mortals having or controlling more power that some gods. Still, I would reserve the “godlike” label to powers which mortals usually DON’T have.
And yes, by informations I totally mean mytology. We don’t have anything better AND in content of this comics it’s obviously relevant.
PS: Note that technically, we don’t know if Rumpelstiltskin was mortal. He might be fae or demon.
You could have the other end of the wormhole connect to somewhere else in this universe. I’m going to assume that that’s a whole lot easier.
Judging by what I read, most physics assume so. Yet, namesakes apparently consider easier to open one wormhole to “their” universe and another out instead of doing it directly (proved by Alice). Conclusion? Rating magic powers according to our understanding of physics is useless.
Hmm, sounds good, but not entirely accurate. I grant you that you are 100% correct if it’s made from Straw, or almost anything else. Making Gold out of Lead though, can be done with radiation. Enough radiation will bump the lead one step up the elemental scale. It’s no coincidence that the infamous “Alchemist Disease” had exactly the same symptoms as radiation poisoning, Pitchblende (the ore that Uranium is derived from) is the infamous Alchemist Stone that all Alchemist’s searched for.
Doing so without an annihilation reactor would still take millions of years, and building an annihilation reactor will take several thousand years of infrastructural development just to create the kind of exotic alloys needed to contain the process. Then you would need to use the first small reactors to make bigger reactors and then even bigger ones then that before they could be used to synthesize any material from any other, but by that point in the Carsheve scale, gold would be worthless as anything other then a useful inert component in a few applications.
Perhaps it’s like fairy gold, only an illusion.
Getting some strong Unwritten vibes from this science-meets-fiction setting. The Rippers parallel the Cabal pretty well.
I’ve tried to open this page four times just now & Chrome warned me of malware three times. It said content had been inserted from cmedia.deore-medias.org. You may want to check your ads?
(Meanwhile, Emma has returned to pants & feels much more herself.)
Crap, crap, crap. Thanks for letting us know. I’m going to get our tech folks on it.
I confess, I’m interested to see what exactly Emma’s abilities might be and how she might be able to control them. I’m concerned about the ‘reseal’ dangerous abilities bit. Dangerous to One perhaps?
AAAAAAAAHH! It CAN’T stop hereeeeee! I was like 6 chapters behind and I’ve just read everything non-stop up to date! I need mooore. Anyway, I’m so glad I finally catched up on this comic
Welcome back to the update waiting post!
I can’t help but wonder if we’re ever going to get back to the characters from OZ or if all other trips to alternate worlds will be new ones. While I’m enjoying the direction of this plot, I already feel invested in those OZ characters since we spent so much time with them. By the time we ever get back to them, I’ll have to reread the first part of the comic to remind me of who they are and what they were doing. It makes you wonder if the OZ plot wasn’t really important in the scope of the comic, just a digression or a red herring to the real plot going on here. Anyway, I hope you know what you’re doing.
There’s a reason members of the Oz cast are listed among the main cast.
In addition to what Meg said, it’s also worth noting that we now know that One is the original Henry Gale (i.e.: the original Dorothy’s uncle). Given that One so far seems to be very obviously the main villain of the story… yeah, I’m pretty sure we’ll be revisiting the Oz characters, bigtime.
is it bad i like Nose? I mean he’s trying to have some control of his life a bit now, but i think that Emma is giving him some inspiration…. And he didn’t really have a choice or know better when he was younger….
No it’s not bad. I love Nose, he’s actually one of my favorites despite being with the bad guys
I’ve just found this comic. I’ve been reading non stop all day and now I’m sad that I have to wait for a new panel……maybe I’ll just start over again
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